FANDOM


Michael Corbin investigates O.H. Krill in 1991, after The Krill Report (1988) was posted on a BBS forum by Don Allen. The results of Michael Corbin’s investigation of the report is inconclusive. After much forum chatter from Don Allen, Bill English, Jim Shaffer, Brian R. Clark, Eric Herrera, and Joe Mastroianni, it was believed that the “Krill papers” were just a hoax by John Lear, Val Valerian, or Bill Cooper. However, despite the claims by Bill English, no true consensus could be made as to who O.H. Krill really was—and no one ‘formally’ stepped forward to claim authorship.

Five years later, the matter was revisited in 1996.[1] However, again there was no consensus on who wrote the Krill Papers. It was easier to continually debunk O.H. Krill as a hoax, but this time by blasting on Bill Cooper. It was too much trouble to cough up the email by Bill English, who supposedly had the scoop on John Lear and John Grace. English concluded that they were the masterminds behind Krill’s 4-page report that caused a stir in the UFO community.

Jumping on the band wagon of hate, is Kurt Lochner, who in 1998 posts a nasty blog under the pseudonym “I.M. FEDDUP” in a very long rant against Bill Cooper. Lochner also swings on the assumptions of Bill English,[2] via rumors of plagiarism.

But ultimately, in year 2020, does it really matter who wrote the Krill papers? The important question is—is it factual? —UFO-Alien Database
Notes
  1. Comments Shared on the i_ufo-l -- Mailing List, About the Krill Report
  2. Behold A Stale Hoarse, the real story of Drunken Stupor..., by I.M. FEDDUP, 6/25/98

Examination

The following examines Michael Corbin’s investigation of The Krill Report (1988) by O.H. Krill. Corban’s email thread is provided below.

Why the controversy? The Krill Papers (1988) is one of the earliest documents of conspiracy theory in ufology—a precursor to Bill Cooper’s Behold a Pale Horse (1991) and Branton’s The Dulce Book (1996).

Why called hoax? Veteran UFO researchers were upset about conspiracy theory getting mixed into UFO research. So ParaNet outed John Lear, Val Valerian, and especially Bill Cooper. After Bill Moore admitted to spreading disinformation during the Paul Bennewitz case concerning the Dulce affair in 1989,[1] the UFO community became fractured. Now UFO Researchers began looking at each other with critical eyes wondering who else could be disinformants. This is readily evident in the Serpo releases. As soon as they were posted on serpo.org in November 2005, correspondents were outing each other on “red herring” dis/misinformation (Serpo release 1).

Is the Krill report true? Funny enough, moving into year 2020, with all the talk radio/internet shows from Art Bell, George Knapp, Jon Rappoport, and Coast To Coast AM, many of the guest speakers are still using words, language, and concepts that originally came from O.H. Krill’s concepts and terms.

Notes
  1. Barna William Donovan (20 July 2011), Conspiracy Films: A Tour of Dark Places in the American Conscious, McFarland, pp. 104–, ISBN 978-0-7864-8615-1, https://books.google.com/books?id=bJkhqU1IXHAC&pg=PA104 

Michael Corbin

From Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Mon Dec 9 08:24:00 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin

From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Krill File Message-ID: <94241.29438312@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 9 Dec 91 13:24:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - It was written by either Cooper or Lear. Some of it concurs, > other > parts are patheticly ridiculous. It was written by John Grace, aka Val Valerian, a close cohort of John Lear's. He also wrote the Matrix, a compilation of space junk. Mike

-- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG


Archived at: http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/ufo/krill


The following email thread is archived at: 
http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/ufo/don.allen/krill.2

From Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Sun Aug 11 20:40:00 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!ucla-cs!ucivax!jarthur!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin

From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Oh Krill Message-ID: <73598.28A5F407@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 12 Aug 91 00:40:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 67

> From: clarkbr@spot.Colorado.EDU (CLARK BRIAN R)
> Date: 10 Aug 91 06:44:59 GMT
> Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
> Message-ID: <1991Aug10.064459.2450@colorado.edu>
> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > > >
> I read the OH Krill file posted recently by Don Allen, and would
> like to pose a question to all interested, in particular Mr. Allen.
> How can we assess the credibility of UFO information? The OH Krill
> file was posted with the caveat that it is held in low esteem by the
> UFO community; for what reasons is this so? How can the would-be
> investigator separate the possible truth from the probable bullshit?

After a lengthy investigation into this matter, we determined that it was based upon a compilation of science fiction stories over the years, combined with a little rumor about aliens being held captive by the U.S. Government, and all blended into a very cheap piece of work called "The Matrix" by an author, John Grace, using a pseudonym of Val Valerian. Grace and John Lear are good friends living in Las Vegas, NV. After much controversy, Lear admitted publicly that the material was all without substance. The name "O.H. Krill" stood for the "Original Hostage Krill" allegedly captured by the Air Force in the 60s and held captive in the deserts of Nevada. During his stay with our government, he wrote a book called "Yellow Book" which was about their culture and how they "cloned" Jesus Christ to keep us naughty humans in line. It goes on and on ad nauseum. Bottom line: I tend to hold those deliberately asserting bull as truth in very low esteem, for whatever reason. Additionally, there is a common thread between the crap that these guys espouse and what William L. Moore fed Dr. Paul Bennewitz as disinformation under the direction of the AFOSI (Air Force Office of Special Intelligence) at Kirland AFB in New Mexico. Many interesting threads going all to the same place. John Lear wrote several text files concerning the "aliens-eating-humans-from-underground-bases-in-Dulce, NM" scenario. Again, this is very similar to the stuff that was being fed to Bennewitz. Bennewitz later took an extended vacation for a nervous breakdown to allow the paranoia to wear off. This crap that goes on tends to create the most effective damage control to keep serious UFO study from moving forward. Too many normal people take one look at this crap and write the whole subject off. That is truly unfortunate because there is a valid phenomenon which deserves better attention than it gets at "the home for unwed paranoids."

> Those with experience in separating the wheat from the chaff
> would help the rest of us by sharing their experience. Or is there no way
> of avoiding the dis-information? Don, you have the floor... I hope you don't mind my two cents on this, Brian.

Very good point. That is just what we do at ParaNet. We are interested in the serious research. Sometimes that includes investigating these clowns that make so much noise, and when we find something, we write about it. We also hold the Gulf Breeze fiasco in low esteem for similar reasons. It is not so much that Ed Walters might have hoaxed the photos, it is the shoddy so-called "scientific investigation" that was done by those under the guise of a scientific organization. The data is very poor, including the photographic evidence. There is a lot more to this, and it is very complex. Mike

-- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Jim Shaffer

Correspondence between Jim Shaffer and Don Allen

From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Mon Aug 12 15:56:23 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!dorm.rutgers.edu!ieee.org!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: FILE: OH Krill part 3 Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 91 19:56:23 GMT References: <1991Aug8.055219.24384@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 139 Part 3 contains several statements which have been extremely sensationalized. When distributing the file to people I don't know very well, I usually annotate them to prevent anyone with insufficient background (i.e., complete newcomers to the field) from getting excited about them. I also have a few comments on other parts of this section. In article <1991Aug8.055219.24384@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes:

> [attempts at psychically investigating mutilations] While these reports are fascinating, I wonder how much exposure to the field the psychics had before being asked to undertake this task. It would be most interesting to see what a psychic with a good record of success, but no exposure to UFOlogy in general or mutilations in specific, had to say about them. The names and places mentioned would also be interesting to check out. Unfortunately I'm too far from the center of all the action to do it.
> At this point, I will put some references and excerpts from some volumes that I believe are relevant to all the things we've been talking about. Where I feel it is applicable, I will comment on them. And I will comment on them further. :-)
>"Extra-Terrestrials Among Us"
> (p8) JANAP-146 specifies up to 10 years in prison and $10,000 in fines for anyone in government service who makes unauthorized public statements about UFO phenomena. The British Official Secrets Act makes similar provisions. Although I'm not familiar with the acts in question, I would feel reasonably safe guessing that they were intended to prevent the spread of panic if the idea that UFOs were hostile foreign (human) vehicles should arise.
> (p16) On September 14, 1978, a UFO as big as an ocean liner flew over Italy, and over Rome on the 15th and 16th.
> > Comment: This was two weeks before Pope John Paul I was found dead under suspicious circumstances. He was killed between September 28-29. Autopsy was refused. It was rumored he intended to reveal the Fatima message of 1917. The suspiciousness (?) of the circumstances is open to interpretation. The statement "He was killed" is uncalled for in my opinion.
> (p24) Dr. Brian T. Clifford (Pentagon) announces on October 5, 1982, that contact between U.S. citizens and extraterrestrials on their vehicles is illegal. Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations (adopted July 16, 1969, before the first manned lunar landing) says that anyone guilty of this becomes a wanted criminal to be jailed for one year and fined $5,000. The NASA administrator is empowered to determine WITH OR WITHOUT A HEARING that a person has been "ET-exposed" and impose INDETERMINATE quarantine under armed guard, which cannot be broken even by court order. I don't know what context Dr. Clifford's statement was made in, but the intent of the original law was to prevent contamination by lunar microbes while such things were still considered to be a possibility. (The original law said something like 'any vehicle exposed to an extraterrestrial environment', not 'extraterrestrials or their vehicles.') If anyone has the full text of Dr. Clifford's statement, please post it. This is precisely the sort of quoting-out-of-context that I was complaining about at the beginning of my article.
> (p25) Records of the 687 B.C. battle between the Assyrians and the Hebrews indicate that "a blast from heaven" reduced the bodies of 185,000 Assyrians to ashes but left their clothes intact. Microwaves?
> (p145) Morris K. Jessup died under mysterious circumstances after a copy of his book "Case for the UFO" was sent to the Chief of the Office of Naval Research (ONR) in Washington. Ugh. More of this damned sensationalizing of well-known facts! Anyone interested in the full story of the life and death of Dr. Jessup should read "The Philadelphia Experiment" by Berlitz and Moore. To summarize, however, Dr. Jessup died *years* after the book was sent. Although the strange turn his life took after its publication probably contributed to his depression, there were much more immediate mundane factors as well. There are unanswered questions, such as why did he call someone hours earlier and say he was coming to visit him to discuss what he thought was the solution to the Philadelphia Experiment mystery, and how did he drive his car out to the park when he was so drunk, but that's not my point here. The statement quoted above makes it sound like the government immediately sent out a hit squad or something. Completely untrue.
> (p150) Alleged alien comment in annotated edition of "Case for the UFO": "Men frozen helpless make good prey." I haven't read the book, but given the fact that the annotator was Carlos Allende, the above statement probably refers to the frozen-in-spacetime phenomenon resulting from bungled dematerializations. However, Bill Cooper also says something about the aliens giving a cryogenics demonstration using some government officials as test subjects, then refusing to unfreeze them unless the government cooperated with the aliens.
> (p151) Dr. James E. McDonald thought that the Federal Power Commission was evading the evidence concerning UFO involvement in the total power failure that paralyzed New York on July 13, 1965, and dared to say so in front of a Congressional committee.
> (p152) On June 13, 1971, James E. McDonald was found dead under mysterious circumstances, shot through the head with a pistol by his side. I'm not sure what's being implied here, since there's nearly six years between events! The only UFO involvement in the great blackout that I'm aware of was a ball of light spotted over a substation. Does anyone know anything else about the "mysterious" circumstances of McDonald's death?
> (p159) George Adamski, contactee in the 1950s had a special government passport. Possible CIA disinformation agent. Interesting, but can anyone verify? (I've also heard that Wendelle Steven is trying to resurrect the Adamski scenario. Very weird!)
> (p208) It is odd that among the viruses there are some that look like UFOs, like T. Bacteriophage. Do some UFO have the ability to operate in the micro-dimension of viruses? Comment: In the discipline of Yoga is noted the ability to become large or small. What on Earth was the point in making this speculation?

-- * From the disk of: |****** NOTE NEW ADDRESSES ******| We're only immortal Jim Shaffer, Jr. |* uunet!snark!vanth!jms *| for a limited time. 37 Brook Street |**jms%vanth@snark.thyrsus.com***| Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Dreamline") From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Mon Aug 12 16:13:18 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!dorm.rutgers.edu!ieee.org!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: FILE: OH Krill part 3 Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 91 20:13:18 GMT References: <1991Aug8.055219.24384@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 8 I forgot to mention on my first commentary that Sirius isn't located in Orion, but I hope you all knew that.

From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Mon Aug 12 16:10:09 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!dorm.rutgers.edu!ieee.org!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: FILE: OH Krill part 4 (Conclusion) Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 91 20:10:09 GMT References: <1991Aug8.055411.24453@bilver.uucp> Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence Lines: 11 Although the Searle device bears a resemblance to other free-energy devices, particularly those of Bruce DePalma (though Searle's is *much* more powerful), a British alternative-technology researcher who recently tracked down Mr. Searle found that he could produce neither the device nor any first-hand witnesses to its operation.

Joe Mastroianni

-- * From the disk of: |****** NOTE NEW ADDRESSES ******| We're only immortal Jim Shaffer, Jr. |* uunet!snark!vanth!jms *| for a limited time. 37 Brook Street |**jms%vanth@snark.thyrsus.com***| Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Dreamline") From dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Mon Aug 12 21:44:57 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!apple!uokmax!occrsh!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: FILE: OH Krill part 4 (Conclusion) Message-ID: <1991Aug13.014457.9608@bilver.uucp> Date: 13 Aug 91 01:44:57 GMT References: <1991Aug8.055411.24453@bilver.uucp> <1991Aug9.201944.5348@cadence.com> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 108 In article <1991Aug9.201944.5348@cadence.com> jdm@cadence.com (Joe Mastroianni) writes:

> > This is a wonderful story. This should be published in a much longer book form with better character development. It is probably best read on an airplane speeding across the pacific ocean on the way to some exotic Asian destination.
> > Seriously, though, I think you could get some money for this. There was obviously a lot of work and research that went into it. You may even want to try to make a screen or teleplay version.
> > If it were well enought written, there could be a Hugo in it for you.
> > Joe
> Naw...now why would you think that :-) I would be *remiss* if I didn't include something here that I just spotted on the BBS echo called "Fido UFO" direct from Bill English. Bill knows John Lear directly...so I would say this is pretty much from the "horses mouth"

Bill English

-----Include message--------------------------------------------------
Message #8038 - UFO Date : 12-Aug-91 13:49 From : John Hicks To : Dali Moyzes Subject : Three Star General? Replies : #7808 <- > You can download the KRILL.ZIP from this bbs, which discuss the > abductions, but the best is the UFO!.ZIP ... (7245) Thu 21 Mar 91 10:55p By: Bill English To: All Re: Krill files St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
During the past several weeks there have been a number of questions concerning the infamous "Krill Papers". At the advise of John Hicks (363/29) I am posting this information concerning the documents in question. 1) The "Krill Papers" were and are a fraud. John Lear and John Grace of Nevada authored these papers and uploaded them to a Paranet Board originally to see just how guliable the UFO investigative community really was. Much to the credit of Paranet and Mike Corbin, it was quickly determined that the documents were in fact fraudulent. As a result of this both John Lear and John Grace were barred from Paranet and several other UFO related Echos. While I don't agree with the methods employed by John, I do understand his reasoning for this. 2) In one respect the fraud perpetrated by John Lear and John Grace had the effect of proving that at least one so called researcher of of some renoun was in fact a fraud himself. I am of course refering to William Cooper. John was listening to Cooper give and interview to one of the local news media when he over heard Cooper state that while serving in the Navy he in fact viewed the Krill Papers. John approached and questioned Cooper about this knowing that the Krill Papers and the information in them was faked. Cooper stuck to his story and decided that John was his enemy. Especially after John pointed out to him that the Krill Papers were faked. As a result of this Cooper went on a rampage and did everything that he could to discredit Lear and several others. 3) For those of you just coming onto the UFO scene, it is imparitive that you understand that one of the many problems that are inherent to UFO research field is that information sometimes get spread out so quickly without proper disemination. As a result of this it becomes factual without basis. PLEASE...PLEASE...don't take everything you read on these databases as being the absolute truth without first checking with others and most importantly checking your sources...We all get burned from time to time...including myself as evidenced by the SS433 fiasco. But we are the ones who some day may be looked upon as the true heros of our time. At least I hope so..A lot of us have lost so much because of what we do here... Bill English
--- FD 1.99c * Origin: Moderation? What's that?
-*- Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:363/29)
------End of included message-----------------------------------------------
Note: you can tell this is an _authentic_ message from Bill English by all his typos :-) :-) I'm going to be seeing Bill this upcoming weekend at a MUFON function,so I will have the opportunity to "grill" him more on this directly. I'm sure that Michael Corbin can recall when this infamous "Krill" file hit Paranet and how fast it was recognized as bogus. John Lear is _not_ known to be at all credible. And as for Bill Cooper...(heheh)...welll...that's another story altogether. Don --
-* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" From dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Mon Aug 12 23:38:29 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!usc!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona

Don Allen

Correspondance between Don Allen and Brian Clark

From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: OH Krill Message-ID: <1991Aug13.033829.11892@bilver.uucp> Date: 13 Aug 91 03:38:29 GMT References: <1991Aug10.064459.2450@colorado.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 126 In article

Brian Clark

<1991Aug10.064459.2450@colorado.edu> clarkbr@spot.Colorado.EDU (CLARK BRIAN R) writes:

> > > I read the OH Krill file posted recently by Don Allen, and would
> like to pose a question to all interested, in particular Mr. Allen.
> How can we assess the credibility of UFO information? The OH Krill
> file was posted with the caveat that it is held in low esteem by the
> UFO community; for what reasons is this so? How can the would-be
> investigator separate the possible truth from the probable bullshit?
> > Those with experience in separating the wheat from the chaff would
> help the rest of us by sharing their experience. Or is there no way of
> avoiding the dis-information? Don, you have the floor...
> > That's my two-cents worth. Spell-checked and everything.
> > Brian
> > That's a very good question. One of the hardest things to do in this field is to establish what is credible (by that I mean checkable facts and solid sources) and to separate the "wheat from the chaff". Unfortunately, the "chaff" is abundant. Let's take for example a "newbie" coming into this field "raw"..he get's ahold of some Bill Moore/Bill Cooper/John Grace text and proceeds to read all he can, or perhaps he's seen a Bill Cooper lecture. These above-mentioned people (I left out John Lear :-) would have you believing after reading their material that you had better sleep with a shotgun nearby lest you get dragged off as a "snack" :^_) This is to say, that in this field and like many others, there are individuals who are ONLY out to either make a NAME (ie EGO) for themselves or are just profit-minded and don't give a damn what they say to people, as long as they get the bucks rolling in (Cooper) or who are so paranoid (Lear) or who are just following their own hidden agendas and have not proven themselves reliable and who have been involved in dubious Govt smear campaigns (Moore-->Bennewitz). Bear in mind...that if the objective is to cross a booby-trapped field, you must step gingerly. There is NO "short cuts". It is better for you to be skeptical and seek documentation for some (obviously) wild claims in this field. This field also encompasses the "fringes" as well (Channelling, Space Brothers,related paranormal events). When someone or some group makes "statements" or "claims"...if they are credible, they will usually cite the references or sources so you can go out and check them. Beware and flee from anyone who claims to have the _only_ "truth" and when challenged upon their sources, resorts to personal attacks instead. "Thou unbeliever!" I can be both a believer _and_ a skeptic depending on the case. If you are _really_ into research, be prepared to do ALOT of reading, cross-checking and sourcing out documentation. Do NOT accept or assume anything at face value. It seems to be a hallmark of this field that the _more_ you read; instead of getting your questions answered, you end up with even more questions :-) The one thing that I truly do hate to see..is when (supposedly) UFO groups that are "on the same side" are instead, very competitive with each other and make disparaging remarks about each other in public forums that do NOT serve the best interest of anyone. If the GOAL is truly to educate the public, the best way, in my opinion is LIVE up to those "high and noble" ends and to keep their "dirty laundry and snide remarks" to themselves and to work harder to "talk the talk and walk the walk". IF they would do this, the public would be _better_ served and it would be a "win win" for all. I'm involved in ALL the UFO BBS echoes and try to be helpful in everything I do. I had to learn the hard way that to participate in witless and pointless flame wars between "this group is F*cked up and we do it better" is a vast waste of my time and frankly is counter-productive. I would hope to pass on this to you so you can avoid embroiling yourself in elitist notions of "them vs us". The largest UFO "echo" on the BBS's is called "FIDO UFO" and is often called "Fight-o-UFO" in derision. It is large,simply because it has a huge backbone to travel upon and whenever you get about 50-100 people on this large of an echo (on BBS's it's called an echo..on Usenet it would probably be called a "newsgroup), you can *expect* to have such a diversity of opinion that flareups are bound to happen from time to time and there _was_ such a time when it truly did earn it's "fight-o-net" epithet honestly...but things change and people do not stay static and there has since been a "change of mgmt" of moderators on that echo...so it would seem that we who do a good bit of discussions on the various UFO echoes could profit by checking our EGO at the door and getting "on with it". In truth, we are ALL trying to "get to the bottom of the whole thing", and the better we can all cooperate with each other, the better off we are. I take a moment to mention this to you because at some point, you may "discover" that there are UFO message areas on your local BBS that you may not be aware of. These areas are actually national echoes that are carried via FIDO (some on the backbone) and some are independently fed through to other networks. The available UFO echoes exponentially dwarf in message content (you will have to sort the noise to signal ratio tho) than what is available on Usenet here. What is available? Info.Paranet Fido UFO (IFNA) UFINET_USA (Bill English's national echo) Bama (The Alabama UFO network arm of MUFON) MUFONET Contact (echo of MUFONET) ET Eckar (is it still around?) ASK_UFO (UFO MAGAZINE echo off Paranet) Just to name a few.... Don

-- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"

Eric Herrera

Correspondance between Michael Corbin and Eric Herrera

From Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Thu Aug 15 20:02:00 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin

From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens: The Big _lie_ !!! Message-ID: <73849.28AB1B7D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 16 Aug 91 00:02:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - ParaNet(sm) A, Arvada CO Lines: 45 >

From: eherrera@zinfandel.metaphor.com (Eric Herrera) > Date: 15 Aug 91 07:59:35 GMT > Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA > Message-ID: <1094@cronos.metaphor.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

> Also, that doesn't explain the cattle mutilations and BB probes up folks' noses. I don't see the govt. finding a need for steer pituitaries and deciding that cloned humanoids are the way to go. I suppose the govt. *might* have some reason to stick BBs in people's brains via nose- pokers, but once again, why the "artificial greys?" There have never been any documented cases of implants found up people's noses. However, I have heard that there was an implant recovered recently and is being studied by an undisclosed medical university on the east coast somewhere. We were to have heard a report, but that is overdue about three months now. Although cattle mutilations remain a paramount mystery, have you ever considered the "psych" angle as the reason for the cattle mutilations? This could be government-based, although I would not say that using the term government is an accurate term. That provides too broad a brush stroke to what might be a clandestine group with its own agenda.
> Zachary's post brings up a point that has been puzzling me, however. Perhaps one of you Biology-philes can set me straight. Presuming the greys are truly ETs (or EBEs, or whatever is polically correct), is there some rule that says intelligent life *must* develop into a human-like form? (2 arms, 2 eyes, etc.) And oxygen-breathing to boot? Why can't our ETs be ammonia-absorbing jellyfish, or non-corporeal even? Does this make sense to anybody?
Very good point. The late Dr. J. Allen Hynek used to say that we must perceive the possibilities as we know them and the possibilities as we do not know them. Mike

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